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Rights, guns, and the Constitution

January 30, 2013 by badtux99

“The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic.”

Those are not my words. Those are the words of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in his majority opinion in the Supreme Court case Schenck v. United States(1919). While the scope of the Schenck decision was later restricted somewhat by Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), it is still the general case that with rights comes the responsibility to not use those rights in ways that injure others. When those rights are exercised in a way that injures others, you can be held legally liable for the damages that result. See “slander” and “libel” for other examples of limitations on the 1st Amendment right of free speech.

Furthermore, speech is regulated in other ways. If you wish to hold a rally and speak in a public park via setting up a sound system allowing you to reach more than a handful of people, for example, the majority of cities require that you get a permit. The purpose of this permit is to insure that your activities don’t interfere with other activities scheduled at the park that day and that you have made proper provisions for public safety and sanitation, as well as insurance to cover any injuries that occur as a result of the event. The Supreme Court has ruled that this is legal as long as the permit is granted without regard for the content of the speech and that the requirements do not have the fundamental effect of barring free speech.

So it’s clear that both common sense and the law hold that the rights enumerated in the U.S. Constitution are not unlimited. They are unlimited only insofar as exercise of these rights does not cause harm to others, and can be regulated to insure that your exercise of these rights will not cause harm to others. You cannot simply take a sound system to the park and in the middle of a soccer game start ranting about Jesus. That’s causing harm to the soccer players and parents who just want to engage in the enjoyment of their pasttime.

Yet when it comes to guns and the 2nd Amendment, the NRA holds that no restrictions on the enumerated rights are allowed. They point to the 1st Amendment and shout “would you accept restrictions on your 1st Amendment rights?” when in fact said restrictions do exist and have existed all the way back to the beginning of this nation. The nature of the restrictions change over time, for example Schenck imposed additional restrictions while Brandenberg loosened restrictions, but the fact that restrictions are needed in order to provide for public safety and order has never been contested when it comes to 1st Amendment free speech rights.

Yet when you talk about guns, a tiny subset of the 35% of Americans who own one or more guns insists that guns must have a position above free speech. Free speech has restrictions, but this tiny percentage of Americans insists guns must have no restrictions. 8% of gun owners belong to the NRA — that’s roughly 3% of Americans — yet this 3% waves around what 65% of Americans consider to be scary black rifles and shouts “from our cold dead hands!” and expects that to be a useful exercise? Nuh-uhn. That ain’t gonna do it. Just sayin’. Find a way to answer the question “how can I get the majority of Americans to support my right to own an AR-15 with a big magazine” and those of you who want to own an AR-15 with a big magazine might actually have something. Until then, you just look like a blithering blow-hard to the vast majority of Americans, who don’t own guns, are scared of guns, and aren’t willing to support the rights of the minority who do own guns as long as said minority frankly scares the crap outta them.

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Posted in free speech, guns, insanity, right wing stupidity, violence | 14 Comments

14 Responses

  1. on January 31, 2013 at 10:31 am syrbal

    I agree, the insistence that the American holiest of holies is the 2nd Amendment makes me shake my head. For instance, the horrific situation in Alabama, with the little boy held hostage by a guy with a reputation for terrifying his neighbors, killing animals and shooting guns at neighbors in rage….had he been properly incarcerated awaiting trial of the last, that little boy wouldn’t be stuck down a hole with him right now. But no, Alabama apparently let him out on bail because ‘Holy 2nd amendment, holding his ground against people in his neighborhood, Batman!”…so a bus driver is dead and who knows how they wrest a living child from the nutjob.

    A sign of insanity and end times, I tell you. And I am not talking Biblical.


  2. on January 31, 2013 at 6:16 pm Bill Cook

    35 percent? Where in the hell do you get your figures from? I don’t know anyone here that doesn’t own guns.


    • on February 2, 2013 at 3:02 pm politicky

      And I don’t know anyone around here who DO own guns.


  3. on January 31, 2013 at 6:20 pm Bill Cook

    Correction, Helen doesn’t own a gun. But she has also never owned and driven a car.


  4. on January 31, 2013 at 9:03 pm badtux99

    Mr. Bill, I linked to my source. Over 3/4ths of Americans live in cities, and less than 15% of city dwellers own a gun. Ponder the percentages.

    - Badtux the Numbers Penguin


    • on February 1, 2013 at 3:52 am Bill Cook

      Yeah, I could ponder on that, like the fact that less than 15% of city dwellers admit to owning guns.


      • on February 1, 2013 at 7:57 am badtux99

        Bill, the majority of city dwellers have never even seen a gun other than television, and if they’ve ever seen a gun in real life, it was likely in the hands of a criminal. Your problem is that you’re taking the little rural world you live in and applying it to what is basically a different civilization. Guns are problematic in cities because whatever direction you shoot, you’ll be shooting at someone’s house, and most walls are basically paper as far as bullets are concerned. So the only people who own guns in cities are either enthusiasts who shoot them at gun ranges, or criminals. Frankly I’m surprised that even 15% of people in cities own guns, I think there must be a lot of “closet guns” included in that number, guns that were inherited from some elderly relative that have never been loaded and never been outside the closet where they’re stashed on a shelf.


  5. on February 1, 2013 at 8:08 am Bill Cook

    You’re just so damn stubborn that you won’t listen to other opinions. I know plenty of people that live in the big cities and I can assure you that a hell of a lot more of them have guns than will admit to having them, unless you know them well cuz they like to hide the fact.

    The big gun shows in the big cities are so packed you often can’t get into them, and it’s not us country folks going to them, we don’t like big crowds. But believe what you want, I don’t give a shit.


  6. on February 1, 2013 at 8:40 am Bill Cook

    I bet I could go place to place through your neighborhood and find a bunch of guns you swear are not there.


    • on February 1, 2013 at 8:42 am badtux99

      I seriously doubt it, Mr. Bill. Most of the people in my neighborhood are Asian-Americans (I live on the edge of Koreatown), whose ownership of guns is pretty much zero outside of the criminal class.


      • on February 1, 2013 at 8:46 am Bill Cook

        Then the criminal’s will end up being the winners. Carry on.


      • on February 2, 2013 at 3:15 pm badtux99

        Well, Mr. Bill, our little mostly-Asian city has the lowest crime rate in the area. So when is this zombie apocalypse of criminals supposed to occur?


  7. on February 1, 2013 at 4:23 pm JazzBumpa

    “You’re just so damn stubborn that you won’t listen to other opinions.”
    I’m always left wondering — do right wingers have a hyperactive sense of irony, or none at all.

    It’s so damned hard to tell.

    JzB


  8. on February 2, 2013 at 3:02 pm politicky

    I thoroughly enjoyed this post. Thanks.



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